Linda Kasabian Testimony
Manson-Atkins-Krenwinkel-Van Houten Trial Testimony
Linda Kasabian questioned by Vincent Bugliosi (July 29, 1970). Note many
objections have been deleted for clarity:
Q: This woman whom Katie was chasing, do you have any physical description of
her?
A: I only saw the back of her and she had a long white gown, and I believe
she had long, dark hair, possibly brown, I’m not positive.
Q: After Sadie told you that she had lost her knife inside the house, what
did Sadie do, if you recall?
A: I believe she started to run back into the house.
Q: Is that about the time then you ran back down to your car?
A: Yes.
Q : What was your state of mind at that point?
A: I was in a total state of shock.
Q: Did you think of running to a nearby home or calling the police or
anything like that?
A: Yes, that was my first thought.
Q: Then why didn’t you do it?
(Objection on grounds of hearsay. Sustained. Attorneys approached bench.)
BUGLIOSI: I think her answer would be, as an offer of proof, that the reason
she did not call the police or go to a neighbor’s house is because she thought
of Tanya, her daughter Tanya, back at the Spahn Ranch, and also she thought of
Manson at Spahn Ranch with Tanya, so she was frightened. Again this goes towards
the issue of her relationship with Manson and also the issue of whether or not
she was an accomplice.
(Missing discussion. Objection remained sustained.)
Q: Did Tex, Sadie and Katie eventually come to the car?
A: Yes.
Q: What happened then?
A: Well, I had started the car, and Tex came over and told me to turn the car
off and to push over, and he seemed really up-tight because I had run to the
car.
Q: Did Tex then drive off?
A: Yes, he did.
Q: Did Katie and Sadie say anything as you were driving off from the
residence?
A: Yes. They complained about their heads, that the people were pulling their
hair, and that their heads hurt. And Sadie even came out and said that when she
was struggling with a big man, that he hit her in the head. And also Katie
complained of her hand, that it hurt.
Q: Did she say why her hand hurt?
A: She said when she stabbed that there were bones in the way and she
couldn’t get the knife through all the way, and that it took too much energy or
whatever, I don’t know her exact words, but it hurt her hand.
Q: Did Katie say anything about one of the girls inside the residence?
A: Yes, she did. She said that one of the girls was crying for her mother and
for God.
(Missing testimony about changing clothes and looking for a place to clean
up.)
Q: Would you relate what happened, Linda?
A: An older woman came running out of the house.
Q: What happened next?
A: I don’t remember her exact words but she said, "Who is there?" or "Who is
that, what are you doing?" And Tex said, "We’re getting a drink of water." Then
she got sort of hysterical and she said, "My husband is a policeman; he is a
deputy," or something like that. And then her husband came out and he said, "Is
that your car?" And we said, "No, we are walking." And then we started walking
to the car.
Q: All four of you?
A: Yes. And the man was behind us.
Q: Did the man follow you all the way down to the car?
A: Yes.
Q: Did all four of you get into the car?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: The man was right behind us and he came to the driver’s seat and he
started to put his hand in the car to reach for the keys, and Tex blocked him,
grabbed his hand and just jammed, you know. So I thought the man’s arm was going
to go with him.
Q: Now, when you say Tex jammed, what do you mean by that?
A: He drove off fast.
(Missing testimony about throwing clothes and knives from car, washing off at
a gas station and returning to Spahn Ranch.)
Q: What happened after you pulled the car into the parking area and parked
the car?
A: Sadie said she saw a spot of blood on the outside of the car when we were
at the gas station.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: Charlie told us to go into the kitchen, get a sponge, wipe the blood off,
and he also instructed Katie and I to go all through the car and wipe off the
blood spots.
Q: What is the next thing that happened?
A: Charlie told us to go into the bunkroom and wait, which we did.
Q: Where is the bunkroom located?
A: It was called the gun room, also, which Danny DeCarlo had a side bed.
Q: Did you and Katie and Sadie enter the bunkroom?
A: Yes.
Q: Who was there?
A: Clem and Brenda.
Q: Is he also known as Clem Tufts?
A: I just knew him as Clem.
Q: Did Mr. Manson eventually enter the bunkroom?
A: Yes.
Q: Was he with anyone?
A: Yes, he was. With Tex.
Q: Did Tex say anything after you were all in the bunkroom?
A: He said, "I am the devil here to do the devil’s work."
(Objection.)
STOVITZ: Your Honor, may we ask your Honor to ask counsel to make his
objection and then to allow the witness to continue? We are having great
difficulty keeping the continuity of her testimony going with these constant
objections. I know the record reflects the objections because I have gone
through the record, but I think the continuous interruption is made for one
obvious purpose, to interrupt the witness’s train of thought and interrupt Mr.
Bugliosi’s train of thought.
OLDER: Let’s proceed. Bear in mind, Mr. Kanarek, what has been said by the
court before regarding this subject.
Q: Would you repeat what Tex said?
A: That "I am the devil here to do the devil’s work."
Q: He was telling the people in the room that he was the devil?
A: That is what he told the people at the house.
Q: Did Tex say anything else about the killings?
A: Yes. He said that there was a lot of panic, and that it was real messy and
bodies were laying all over the place, but they were all dead.
Q: Did Mr. Manson say anything in response to this?
A: Yes. He asked if we had any remorse.
(Objection. Attorneys approached bench.)
OLDER: Mr. Kanarek, you have directly violated my order not to interrupt
repeatedly. You did it again. I find you in contempt of court and I sentence you
to one night in the County Jail starting immediately after this court adjourns
this afternoon until 7:00 A.M. tomorrow morning. The order will further provide
that you are to be given free access to confer with your client, Mr. Manson,
during the time you are in custody. Proceed.
KANAREK: Your Honor, if I may, I will ask your Honor to read the record. I
tried to object before.
OLDER: I don’t have to read the record, sir. I was present. You have
repeatedly, in spite of my warnings to you, interrupted. You just did it again
in a flagrant disregard of the order.
KANAREK: Your Honor, that is not so. I beg the court to realize. If you will
read the record, she answers so fast that I ask that you...
OLDER: You have been doing it continually, and you did it again after
repeated warnings.
SHINN: Your Honor, may I be heard, your Honor?
OLDER: On what subject?
SHINN: On this same subject. I was present.
OLDER: You are not involved in this.
SHINN: But I want to make my observations, your Honor.
OLDER: I am not interested in your observations.
(Missing testimony. Kasabian stated that all four had told Manson they did
not feel remorse. Also said she did feel remorse. The following evening Manson
told her get extra clothes and driver’s license.)
Q: What did he say after that?
A: He said we were going out again tonight. Last night was too messy and he
was going to show us how to do it. He told us that we were going to go to two
different houses in two groups; that he would go in one group and leave another
group off.
(Missing testimony about the group wandering around Los Angeles looking for
targets. Also, about Manson getting out of car to kill someone stopped at a
traffic light but the light changed and the man escaped. They stopped at a
Church and Manson found the doors were locked so they left. Stopped at a house
and Manson checked but said there were photos of children.)
Q: The second night did you know what was going to happen?
A: Yes.
Q: Why did you go along with Mr. Manson and the others?
A: Because Charlie asked me and I was afraid to say no.
(Missing testimony. Drove to a house on a hill but decided other houses were
too close. Drove to another house but Manson decided against it. Manson then
gave directions to Harold True’s house, which was beside the LaBianca house.)
Q: Had you ever parked in front of that house before?
A: Yes, in the exact spot.
Q : When?
A: My husband and I and friends were on our way down from Seattle,
Washington, to New Mexico and we stopped off in Los Angeles and this one
particular person knew Harold True, so we went to his house and had a party.
Q: Now, when Manson directed you to stop in front of Harold True’s place did
you recognize the spot?
A: Yes I did. Right away.
Q: Did you say anything to Manson with respect to this?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you say?
A: Charlie, you are not going into that house, are you?
Q: Did he say anything to you?
A: Yes, he did, he said "No, I’m going next door."
Q: Then what happened?
A: He got out of the car. He disappeared up the walkway, the driveway,
leading towards Harold’s house, and I could not follow him any longer, he just
disappeared.
Q: Did Mr. Manson eventually return to the car?
A: Yes, he did.
Q: How long after he left the car did he return to the car?
A: I remember we all lit up cigarettes, and we smoked about three-quarters of
a Pall Mall cigarette, however long that takes.
Q: What happened after Mr. Manson returned to the car?
A: He called Leslie and Katie and Tex out of the car.
Q: What did you hear him say?
A: I heard him say that there was a man and a woman up in the house and that
he had tied their hands, and that he told them not to be afraid, that he wasn’t
going to hurt them.
Q: Did he give any instructions to Tex, Katie and Leslie Van Houten? Did he
give them any instructions at all?
A: I am not positive, but it keeps ringing in my head that he said, "Don’t
let them know that you are going to kill them."
Q: Did Manson say anything to Tex, Katie and Leslie about fear or panic?
A: Yes. I think I heard him say not to cause fear and panic in these people.
Q: What happened then?
A: Charlie got back into the car and handed me a woman’s wallet, and he
proceeded to drive off.
(Missing testimony. Manson told Kasabian to hide a wallet in a gas station
restroom. Bugliosi introduced a photo of a dune buggy with a sword mounted to
it. Hughes objected.)
HUGHES: Your Honor, the objection that I am making is that this photograph
has never been produced for us by way of discovery. This is just indicative of
the complete disregard that the district attorney’s office has had to various
discovery motions and various discovery orders that this court has made.
OLDER: Statements like that aren’t going to help you, Mr. Hughes. Just state
the facts.
HUGHES: Okay. The district attorney’s office is withholding evidence from us.
OLDER: Is that what you came up to say?
KANAREK: I make a motion to suppress.
BUGLIOSI: For the record, I just saw it for the first time a few minutes ago
myself.
HUGHES: That is a lot of shit, Mr. Bugliosi.
OLDER: I hold you in direct contempt of court for that statement. I will take
the matter up at 4:15 this afternoon. The motion to suppress is denied.
(Hughes was found in direct contempt for disorderly, disruptive, vulgar and
unprofessional conduct. Older offered Hughes a fine of $75 but Hughes stated
that he was "a pauper." Older sentenced him to a night in jail. Hughes gave a
clenched fist salute and stated "Right on.")
