Charles Watson Testimony, September 1971 - Part 2

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Q What did the girls do in this period of time?

A The girls, I know the girls that were around me so I could work on the dune buggies more. They would go after screw drivers and parts and wash parts off to help me out so I wouldn't have to do that.

Q Were there other chores being performed by the girls?

A They would cook and do the things that girls did on dune buggies.

Q What did the girls do on dune buggies?

A They put a lot of fur on Charlie's dune buggy.

Q How about garbage runs? Were there any things like that going on?

A Yes. They went on garbage runs everyday.

Q What was the purpose of that?

A To go behind grocery stores and get the vegetables and fruits and anything that they could find to eat.

Q Is that what you lived on at the ranch?

A Yes.

Q What did that mean?

Q That meant to, that is another way Charlie would take the fear out of you. He would take you out at night and just walk up and down the beach and get close to people's houses and stuff, you know, to experience the fear of being around things.

Q Did you ever go into a house and take anything while you were with Manson?

A No. I did not.

Q Did the girls do that, if you know?

A I don't know.

Q Were there credit cards around the ranch?

A Yes.

Q Do you know where they came from?

A I know the girls on two or three times I can remember, the girls went out and got credit cards. I remember one time or two times they were hitch-hiking and the guy would take them home with him and they would end up leaving with his credit cards.

Q Then would you use them around the ranch?

A Yes.

Q Were all the girls around the ranch pretty much of the same order; that is, would they all do pretty much the same thing?

A Pretty much the same thing.

Q Was there any one girl who seemed to be a little closer to Manson than anybody else?

A Brenda, seemed like she was always pretty close to Manson.

Q Anybody else that you can think of that was close to Manson?

A I don't know -- all of them was, they were all, you know, his girls. You know, that was understood, that they were his, you know.

Q Well, was there any one girl that gave any more orders than any other girl, if any of them did?

Mr. Kay: Well, that assumes a fact not in evidence, that any of them gave orders.

Mr. Bubrick: I said if any of them did, in his presence.

The Court: Overruled. You may answer.

Witness: What is the question, again?

Mr. Bubrick: Would you read it back, please Mr. Reporter?

(Record read.)

A I don't say any orders were given to any girls it would have been from -- by any girls, it would have been from Brenda or Squeaky or Sadie.

Q (By Mr. Bubrick) Were they the oldest members of the family, as far as you know?

A Yes, nearly all of the girls were -- was all members older than me, had been there a lot longer than I had.

Q What sort of a person was Sadie?

A Her and Charlie were always -- Charlie was – her and Charlie was always kind of having trouble together because she would kind of tell people what to do. She was kind of an authoritative like girl.

Q Did Charlie disapprove of that?

A Yes, he did.

Q And how did he demonstrate that disapproval?

A He'd beat her up in front of everybody.

Q Did you see him do that to any of the other girls?

A I saw him beat on some of the other girls, yes.

Q About the same time?

A Well, through the periods I was there, all the time, I guess.

Q Did you ever meet Linda Kasabian?

A Yes, I did.

Q Do you remember when?

A Around July '69.

Q Do you remember when you first met her?

A Her and Gypsy were walking up to the ranch one afternoon and I was out standing on the grounds of the ranch and they came walking up to me.

Q Were you introduced to her?

A Yes, her and her little girl.

Q Did Linda have a baby with her?

A Yes.

Q Did you talk with her for some while?

A No, they just kind of passed by me -- was introduced to her, and then they went on about their business, you know.

Q Did you see her anymore that first day?

A Yes, I was standing at the end of the boardwalk and she came walking up.

Q Did she still have the baby with her?

A No, she didn't.

Q About what time of the day or night was it when you met her this way?

A I know it was --the sun was still up.

Q I take it you didn't have watches out there, is that right?

A No watches or nothing like that.

Q What happened between you and Linda?

A I know I put my arms around her and we went into a back shack and made love.

Q How long did that take?

A I don't have any idea. I know that some girl came and got us because it was time to eat, time for everybody to eat and Charlie was getting everybody together, you know, to eat.

Q Where did you eat on that occasion, if you remember?

A I don't remember.

Q Did you talk with Linda at all that evening?

A Yes I did.

Q What did you talk about, if you remember?

A Well, she was interested in the family.

Q What did she ask you?

A I remember the main question she asked me was how did we live and how did we get our money, things like that; just how we got along, you know.

Q Did you tell her?

A Yeah, I told her that everybody who came to the ranch gave up all their money and possessions and everything .

Q Do you know of your own knowledge whether Linda ever brought money back to the ranch?

A Yes, about $5,000.

Q Did you send her for it?

A No, I did not.

Q Did you tell her to get it?

A No, I did not.

Q Were you around when she brought it?

A I saw it, but I didn't -- I saw the money there but I wasn't around when she came back with it.

Q Do you know who she gave it to?

A No, I do not.

Q It wasn't to you, was it?

A No, it was not.

(Possible missing testimony)

Q Do you remember what you continued to do during the month of July around the ranch?

A I know I was taking a lot of speed then.

Q Anything else?

A Yes.

Q Any other kind of drug?

A LSD.

Q Was Paul Watkins and Brooks Poston still there?

A No, sir, they were not.

Q When did they leave?

A I believe they left in May.

Q Do you recall, Charles, whether drugs became more or less frequent after Brooks and Paul left?

A A lot more.

Q About how many men were left after Brooks and Paul left?

A About three, I guess, or four of the ones that had been there for a while.

Q You were there and who else was there with you?

A Steve Grogan and Bruce Davis.

Q How did Manson and Bruce get along?

A Bruce was always real loud, loud talking, and he was just running around kind of trying to be Charlie all the time and putting out -- all he would do is just go around preaching Charlie's philosophy all the time, you know. He was trying to be Charlie.

Q How about Steve?

A Everybody was, you know, preaching his philosophy except Steve didn't have the -- you know, he was real quiet. He didn't have that kind of thing.

The Court: Would this be a good time to have our afternoon recess?

Mr. Bubrick: Yes, your Honor.

The Court: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we will have our afternoon recess at this time. Once more again please heed the admonition heretofore given.

(Afternoon recess)

The Court: People against Watson.

Q (By Mr. Bubrick) Mr. Watson, I think you told us before the break that in the period of time between the leaving of Paul Watkins and Brooks Poston and this July period that we are talking about, you increased your LSD; is that correct?

A Correct.

Q What effect was the LSD having on you, if any at all?

A Well, the LSD, this drew up fear. The LSD made me more aware, hearing and seeing and taste and smell, just all your senses became more aware; and you became so aware that you were living in fear and getting so used to living in fear, with all the awareness of things around you you were more like an animal; and until I experienced so much fear that there wasn't any fear any more.

Q The end result was that you became fearless; is that correct?

A Correct.

Q Did Manson talk about fear a great deal?

A Yes.

Q Was that part of his philosophy?

A Yes, continuously, that part of it; and the acid, too, then and Manson.

Q How about the subject of killing? Was that brought up by Manson?

A There was no wrong. Everything was perfect. It was perfection, the flow and the oneness, and there was no mistake. Manson was a perfect being, to me more like Christ and we were totally him then.

Q Did you ever doubt or dispute anything he told you?

A No, none at all. Everything was perfect.

Q Did he make any particular comments about killing?

A Yes, everything was perfect. There wasn't nothing that was wrong. There was no thought of any wrong at all. There was no thought in our heads. All the thought was gone.

Q Did he use the word "Pig"?

A Not that much but he always talked about the people, the people down the hill and how much fear they had and how we had already experienced all the fear there was, and had no thought any more, and that all of those people down there were dead already because they had so much fear, and there was no way for them to escape helter-skelter when it came down.

Q Was he talking more about helter-skelter during this period?

A Yes. The helter-skelter, of confusion of all the people would be in when it did come down, the fear that they would have. They would just be running into each other in cars, trying to get away from all the fears that they hadn't experienced yet and we didn't have any fear. That is why we were going to get away.

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