Charles Watson Testimony, September 1971 - Part 4

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Q What happened as you approached the front of the house?

A I walked in the front door.

Q Was there anybody there?

A There was a guy laying on a couch asleep.

Q But that's after you got in the house; is that correct?

A That's after I got in the house.

Q As you approached the door, was the door closed?

A I believe it was, uh-huh; and I walked right in the door.

Q You just opened the door --

A Just opened it up.

Q --just turned the knob and go right in?

A Right.

Q Was any of the group -- that is, any of the three girls with you at this time?

A No, I didn't see any girls at that time.

Q All right. What happened when you got in the house?

A Then I saw Sadie.

Q Where?

A She just popped up.

Q Do you know where she came from?

A No.

Q Did you see her before or after you saw the man on the couch?

A I saw her -- did you say before or after I saw the man on the couch?

Q Yes.

A I believe I saw her before.

Q What was she doing, if you know?

A She went by me and went in the other part of the house. I was in the front room and she started bringing out people out of the rooms.

Q How many people were in the front room that you went in?

A There was one man laying on the couch asleep.

Q And was he awakened while you were in that room?

A He awakened when everybody was coming into the room.

Q Who was coming into the room?

A A bunch of people walking into the room.

Q How many? do you remember?

A Three or four people were walking into the room.

Q Was Sadie one of them?

A Sadie, yes, Sadie was one of them.

Q Do you remember who else among the girls was in that group, if they were?

A I didn't see any other girls yet.

Q You didn't see Linda?

A No, I didn't see Linda.

Q Nor did you see Patricia; is that right?

A She walked in the house as everybody was walking into the room.

Q What happened when the group was in the room then?

A A guy started toward me and --

Q Was this the man that had been on the couch?

A No, it was another person.

Q What happened then?

A And I was -- I remember I was kind of running or jumping back and forth behind the couch and making funny noises and Sadie said, "Watch out" or something like that and I turned around and I emptied the gun on this man.

Q You say emptied the gun on this man?

A Yes.

Q How many times did you shoot him, if you know?

A I don't know. I just shot, you know. I don't know how many times I shot him.

Q Did you do anything else?

A Then I went around the couch and started stabbing him.

Q This is the same man that you shot?

A Yes. Patricia was already over there stabbing him and I went over and I did the same thing.

Q How long did that take or last?

A Until Sadie hollered at me and she was fighting and stabbing a man going out the door.

Q What did you do about that, if anything?

A I remember Sadie hollering, "Tex, Tex," a bunch of times and I ran over and started hitting him with the gun.

Q After you hit him, did you do anything else?

A I hit him for a while and then there was a little lapse of time, I believe, and then Sadie was still stabbing him on the ground and I walked over and stabbed him some more.

Q While he was on the ground?

A Uh-huh.

Q He is now outside of the house; is that correct?

A That is correct.

Q On the lawn?

A On the lawn.

Q Did anything else happen?

A Then Katie came running over and grabbed me by the arm and said something like, "There's one over here," or something. I don't know what she said but she said, "come over here," and we ran over and there was just a woman lying there that had blood all over her and stabbed her.

Q Did these people, or these people that you stabbed, or the objects that you stabbed, have any form?

A They had form but I really didn't see any faces, you know, or expressions or -- they were just blobs of, you know --

Q Did you have a rope with you that evening?

A No, I did not.

Q Did you carry a rope up the hill or into the house?

A No, I did not.

Q Did you tie any people up in that house?

A No, I did not.

Q Did you throw a rope over a rafter or anything of that nature?

A No, I did not.

Q I think you told us now you shot and stabbed somebody in the house; is that correct?

A That is correct.

Q And then you stabbed some people outside of the house; is that correct?

A That is correct.

Q Do you remember where the couch was in the house?

A The couch was kind of in the middle of the room longways, up and down, up and down the room.

Q Where were the two people that you stabbed in the house in relation to the couch?

A Well, I only stabbed one person.

Q I am sorry --the one person in the house.

A In front of the couch, laying longways, laying --

Q Parallel or perpendicular to the couch?

A It was the opposite way of the couch.

Q That would be perpendicular to the couch?

A Perpendicular to the couch.

Q How about the other person, do you remember if that was a man or a woman?

A Had on blue jeans and stuff. I guess it was a man.

Q How about the other person?

A The other person was laying at the end of the couch up toward the room where they came out of perpendicular to the end of the couch, on down from the end of the couch.

Q Did you touch either of those bodies after you had shot and stabbed them?

A No.

Q Did you move them?

A No, I did not.

Q Did you tie anything to them or tie them together?

A No, I did not.

Q After you left that room and went outside, did you go back into the house again?

A No, I did not.

Q Did you write anything on the walls of the house?

A No.

Q Did you slit the screen in that house?

A No, I did not.

Q Did you see Linda about that house at all while you were there?

A No, I did not.

Q You did see Sadie and Patricia; is that right?

A Sadie and Patricia, yes.

Q Was there any screaming among any of these victims?

A It was wild and it was loud and all kind of noises.

Q Did anybody beg for their life?

A I couldn't really make out anything like that – screams and noises, loud noises.

Q Did you hear any dogs barking?

A No, I didn't hear any dogs barking.

Q Did you hear the sound of music from a hi-fi set or anything like that?

A No, I didn't hear any music or anything like that.

Q How long would you say you were in this house on Cielo Drive?

A I don't have any idea of time or anything, how long I was in there.

Q After you left the house where did you go?

A I was outside in the -- between the, like on the driveway outside of the house there.

Q I take it these people were not people you had ever seen before, were they?

A No. I never had seen anybody. I couldn't make them out, not that much.

Q Can you tell us what it is that made you go there?

A I was doing what Charlie had told me to do.

Q I take it you had no grievance with those people?

A No, none at all.

Q How did you leave the premises, Charles?

A We walked down the hill.

Q How many of you walked down?

A Three.

Q Was Linda among that group?

A No, she was not.

Q Did you punch the button and get through the gate on the Way out?

A We walked out the gate, but I didn't punch any button.

Q Do you know who did?

A No, I do not.

Q You walked on down the hill?

A Yes.

Q Did you have the gun and the knife with you?

A Yes, it was still with me.

Q And where was the car, if you remember?

A Parked at the bottom of the hill.

Q Where you had left it?

A Yes.

Q All right; did you get back in the car?

A Yes. No, Linda was sitting in some leaves or something beside the car, and she got in the passenger's seat and the girls got in the back seat and I got under the wheel and then Sadie or Katie, one, said for Linda to drive and for me to change clothes. So I scooted over and Linda drove off and I was changing clothes.

Q Did the car come to a stop again?

A Yes, it did.

Q Where?

A On some street.

Q What did you do in between the time that you left Cielo Drive and the car stopped?

A I changed clothes.

Q Removed what, your shirt and trousers?

A Yes, removed everything I had on.

Q And you obviously put some other clothing on; is that right?

A Yes. The girls in the back seat handed me some clothes to change into.

Q And how about the girls, did they change their clothes?

A As far as I know; I can't remember what they did, really, at that time.

Q Where were you in the car when you changed clothes?

A I was in the front seat.

Q Alongside of Linda; is that correct?

A Correct.

Q And do you have any recollection of how long you might have been driving before you next stopped?

A No. It didn't seem like too long, though, too long a time.

Q Then you came to a stop in the car, did you?

A Yes.

Q Did you all get out?

A Yes, we did.

Q Where did you go?

A We were walking up the street and a water hose was coming out the driveway.

Q Incidentally, when you drove on this street where you saw the water hose, did you park the car on that same side of the street?

A The car was parked going back down the street.

Q So the front was pointed down toward Beverly Glen; is that right?

A It was pointed back towards the main street.

Q I mean Benedict Canyon, not Beverly Glen, I'm sorry. Is that correct?

A It was pointed down towards the main street.

Q Then you walked toward the water house, did you?

A Yes, that's correct.

Q The four of you?

A Yes.

Q Did somebody come out while you were there?

A Yes.

Q What happened when that person appeared?

A He appeared and walked right up in front of me, right up to my face and said, "What you doing?" or something like that; and I said, "Getting a drink.''

Q What were you doing?

A Getting a drink.

Q Did you have the water hose and the water running?

A I don't recall that.

Q What happened after he talked with you?

A I know there was a lot of confusion came down then; somebody ran out the house and we started walking towards the car.

Q Did this man say or do anything?

A I can't recall him saying anymore than what he said.

Q Did he say, "What are you doing?" and you said you were getting a drink of water?

A That's correct.

Q And there was this confusion that you spoke of?

A Yeah, and we started walking toward the car.

Q How far away was the car?

A Not too far at all; it was just right -- not too far.

Q Did this man ever threaten you?

A No.

Q Did you threaten him?

A No.

Q You still had the knife and the gun, didn't you?

A Not on me.

Q Well, was it in the car?

A Yes, it was in the car.

Q What happened when you got back to the car?

A I jumped under the wheel this time and the girls got in and we drove away.

Q Where did you go?

A I started driving and then one of the girls in the back seat said we had to stop and throw out the clothes and knives, so that's what we did; stopped and threw away everything that was in the car.

Q Incidentally, Charles, I hate to take you back, but do you remember how many people you shot in the house?

A One person.

Q Oh, you shot one in the car, is that correct, outside of the house?

A That's correct.

Q And one in the house?

A That's what I did.

Q Do you have any recollection of shooting any other person in the house?

A No, I have not, no.

Q Did you know that the gun still had live bullets in it?

A No, I did not.

Q You thought you had discharged them all?

A Yes, I did.

Q All right. Now, back to leaving the house at the scene: Where did you drive after you left the house where you got the water?

A Where did we what, now?

Q Where did you drive after you left the house where you got the water?

A Up the hill.

Q To where, if you remember?

A We went up and over and stopped at a filling station.

Q Didn't anything happen there that you remember?

A No, I know I got out and went to the bathroom.

Q And then after that, where did you go?

A I came out of the bathroom and got into the back seat of the car and laid down and ended up at the ranch.

Q Do you remember what time of day or night it was?

A Just that it was dark and late.

Q What did you do when you got to the ranch?

A We all went into the room at the end of the ranch house.

Q Was anybody up at that hour?

A Charlie was running around without any clothes on, I remember that.

Q Anybody else with him?

A And Brenda was there, and that's all I can recall.

A Did you tell Charlie what happened, or was anything said about that night?

A I didn't say anything that night, but I know Charlie was kind of talking to some of the people in the ranch house there.

Q What did you do after seeing Charlie back in the ranch house?

A I went to sleep.

Q Did you talk at all with Charlie that night?

A No, I did not talk to Charlie that night.

Q Did you see him the following day?

A I didn't see him until later that night.

Q Do you have any recollection of being up at all that following day?

A Not the following day, no.

Q Did you sleep most of the day?

A Yes, I did.

Q What happened the following day when you saw Charlie?

A The first thing I remember is him giving me a knife and some acid.

Q What time of the day or night was this?

A I know it was just dark, a little after dark.

Q Had you eaten supper yet?

A I can't recall about supper that night.

Q You got the knife and acid and then what?

A He told me to get in the car.

Q It was the same --

A The same car.

Q The same Ford automobile?

A Yes.

Q Was anybody else in the car?

A Linda and in the back seat, was full, it had Sadie, Katie, and Leslie and Steve Grogan.

Q There were seven of you; is that correct?

A Yes, that is correct.

Q Who was driving?

A Charlie was driving.

Q Did he say where you were going or what you were going to do?

A I can't recall right now what he said.

Q Incidentally, before you went out this evening of the 9th, had there been any discussion between you and Charlie about weapons? Anything said about weapons?

A No.

Q Did you ever tell Charlie that you ought to have better weapons than you had the night before?

A No, I did not.

Q Did you ever use the expression "I am the devil here to do the devil's work"?

A No, I did not.

Q Did you ever say that at the Tate house?

A No.

Q Did you say that the following night, if you remember?

A No.

Q Did you ever tell Charlie in the bunk house that that is what you said?

A No, I did not.

Q Had there ever been any discussion about the devil as part of the Manson philosophy?

A The devil was the people, society, in that they were -- had so much thought that they were tearing up the world.

Q That is who Manson considered the devil?

A Yes; and also we, before we lost our thought, we were the devil.

Q But you were no longer the devil now?

A No, sir. We were considered as Christ, perfect.

Q Is that what Charlie told you?

A Everything was perfect, no mistake.

The Court: I think this would be a good time to recess. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we will recess at this time until 9:30 tomorrow morning. Once more do not form or express any opinion in this case. Do not discuss it among yourselves or with anybody else. Please keep an open mind. 9:30 tomorrow morning.

(An adjournment was taken until Thursday, September 2, 1971 at 9:30 a.m.)